The Dolfi family came to snack in the hidden dining room of the historic À la Mère de Famille shop.
In this fourth episode of the À la Mère de Famille podcast, Déborah and Steve welcome the entire Dolfi family, the proud owners of our Maison (and more!). Étienne, Sophie, Steve, Jane and Jonathan Dolfi are like the five musketeers of the French chocolate shop – confectionery – patisserie, the playful and inventive defenders of a delicious heritage that they keep constantly evolving through questioning and ongoing research. We listen to them and get to know them over a grand snack with papillotes and praline rochers, bouchées and dolfentins… Together, we trace the thread of a unique family history, driven by tradition, teamwork and a love of fine things. The family shares its holiday memories, its rituals and what it means to them to perpetuate know-how that is sometimes centuries old.
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The Dolfi family
For three generations, the Dolfis have tasted and made confections. Between chocolates, pastries, confectionery and ice cream, the family business, born from a boiled sugar candy factory, flourishes throughout France. Today, 53 shops, 14 brands, a chocolate factory, five patisserie workshops and one ice cream workshop ensure the vitality of a confectionery heritage constantly renewed by the expertise of a family passionate about fine taste.
The Dolfi family propelled itself to the forefront of the chocolate scene in 2000, when it acquired À la Mère de Famille, the oldest chocolate shop in Paris, opened in 1761. This historic chocolate monument, a real engine for the company, brings together Étienne and his children. The story begins with the two eldest, Sophie and Steve, joined five years later by Jane, then in 2010 by Jonathan. Strong in their family spirit, all five run the company based on mutual listening and knowledge of each other's strengths. This is how the family stands out, becomes a major player in its market while creating a world all its own. It flourishes through encounters and desires. The Dolfis take over other temples of gourmandise, mainly historic houses with great local renown such as Auer in Nice, Buissière in Limoges, Les Palets d’Or in Moulins, Henriet in Biarritz, Au Duc de Morny in Deauville, Pillon in Toulouse… Their vocation reveals itself through the takeovers: to preserve and keep alive the know-how of the chocolate makers, pastry chefs, confectioners and ice cream makers. Driven by this deep desire, they equip themselves little by little, so as to produce their confections from A to Z.
In 2017, the takeover of Stohrer, the oldest patisserie in Paris (opened in 1730), anchored these free spirits even further in their approach. With this second historic and well-meringued engine, they definitively take on the role of guardians of the hexagonal confectionery heritage, a mission for which they are ready to get their hands dirty (choux, puff pastry, fruit, almond…).
Transcript
Déborah Pham — À la Mère de Famille presents L’Heure du Goûter, the podcast where we talk with our mouths full. I think we have a crowd today…
Steve Dolfi — Oh yes! And it’s my family, too.
Déborah Pham — This is a first.
Steve Dolfi — Yeah.
Déborah Pham — Are you going to introduce me to the family?
Steve Dolfi — Listen, it was about time!
Déborah Pham — It was about time, absolutely.
Steve Dolfi — Everyone is here: all the siblings, the father… Everyone is here.
Déborah Pham — I have a feeling it’s going to be a joyful mess.
Steve Dolfi — We’ll have to keep to the timing!
Déborah Pham — I’ll leave you to welcome them, I’ll wait for you upstairs.
Steve Dolfi — Sounds good.
Jane Dolfi — Hi!
Steve Dolfi — Welcome to your home! I’ll explain the deal: I’m going to give you a little basket.
Jane Dolfi — I think we’re entitled to one basket for all of us.
Steve Dolfi — Ah, we’ll have to agree! I’ll carry it and you put things in it. We’ll take whatever we want from the shop to snack on during the podcast.
Jane Dolfi — Papillotes, immediately!
Steve Dolfi — There are Dolfingers… I’ll take a little assorted box. Oh, the Craques! A box of Rochers too…
Jonathan Dolfi — What’s really good and what we don’t eat enough of are the bouchées sablé-caramel. I’ll take some.
Sophie Dolfi — Isn’t there a little coffee bar?
Jane Dolfi — And the truffles? It’s Christmas!
Sophie Dolfi — The truffles!
Steve Dolfi — Well, now, I think we’re set.
Sophie Dolfi — Shall we go?
Steve Dolfi — John, are you ready? Let’s go!
Déborah Pham — Hello everyone. We are gathered today around this table for L’Heure du Goûter, in the company of Steve Dolfi.
Steve Dolfi — Hello Déborah.
Déborah Pham — And this time, we are with the entire Dolfi family. Well, almost.
Steve Dolfi — It’s funny, we are all around the table.
Déborah Pham — Snack time, recess time… Shall we introduce ourselves? Shall we go around the table?
Steve Dolfi — I can probably introduce them.
Déborah Pham — With pleasure.
Steve Dolfi — First, we have the eldest: Sophie, my big sister, who is 51.
Then, Jane, who is just below me and is 42. Then Jonathan, who is almost 40, which doesn’t make us look any younger.
And finally the patriarch…
Déborah Pham — The old man.
Steve Dolfi — The old man. The boss: Étienne, who we also call Patino.
How old are you?
Étienne Dolfi — 77 years old.
Steve Dolfi — So we should make the most of his presence because it might be the last time.
Déborah Pham — But that’s not possible! Well, I have a feeling there will be a lot of kindness around this table.
Steve Dolfi — Of course, of course.
Déborah Pham — The table is well stocked, as always. We won’t starve.
What did you take? How did you organize yourselves? Because, right now, we have the best consultants from À la Mère de Famille around the table.
Steve Dolfi — I think everyone has gathered their stash. I see praline, Craques, Rochers de Biarritz… That, we know is Sophie.
Déborah Pham — You know who likes what without even asking?
Steve Dolfi — Theoretically, yes, more or less. What surprises me is that there are no coffee pralines for Jane.
Jonathan, for his part, went for a caramel bouchée or something like that.
Déborah Pham — Jonathan wanted to go for the baba au rhum, from what I heard.
Steve Dolfi — Jonathan is still the only one who created a chocolate for his wife. Which is not bad.
Jonathan — Actually, there was a chocolate called the Cara-Crousti. My wife’s name is Chiara, so we renamed it the Chiara-Crousti.
Déborah Pham — And we kiss it.
Jonathan Dolfi — Of course.
Steve Dolfi — After that, I say this, but the old man, we call him Patino and we even created an ice cream in his name.
Déborah Pham — Étienne, what is your favorite thing on the table?
Étienne Dolfi — The problem, unfortunately, is that I like everything and I enjoy everything.
Déborah Pham — Chocolate rather?
Étienne Dolfi — I love Craques because I find them delicious, and I really like truffles. But honestly, you’ll have trouble finding something I don’t like.
The consequence is that over the years, I’ve become a bit rounder…
Déborah Pham — Wait, don’t tell me anything. I’m going to ask your children: what does Étienne dislike?
Steve Dolfi — Diets?
Déborah Pham — Not bad.
Someone around the table — Zucchini!
Étienne — That’s true.
Déborah Pham — Honestly, he’s not complicated.
How did the passion for chocolate begin in your family?
Étienne Dolfi — We come from a family of products. We have always worked in the food industry, producing and processing food products.
And chocolate has always been a bit of a passion.
By chance, Sophie and I started a business together twenty-five years ago.
At first, we wanted to be a bit original: we created confectionery shops without chocolate. That was not the best idea we had!
Very quickly, we became interested in chocolate.
Déborah Pham — What kind of confectionery did you make back then?
Étienne Dolfi — We went with a concept of Provençal products: nougat, almond paste, calissons… We opened two shops.
It didn’t really work.
Steve Dolfi — What’s really funny is that today, we have just bought a calisson machine.
Déborah Pham — The circle is complete.
Steve Dolfi — And Étienne and Sophie had called this project La Provence de Sophie. I think this is the first time we’ve talked about it!
Sophie Dolfi — We had a lot of fun, though. And above all, it allowed us to realize that chocolate was a pretty magical product.
Steve Dolfi — And essential!
Little by little, they fell for chocolate.
At the same time, they were already supplying À la Mère de Famille with calissons, nougats, almond pastes…
Mr. Neveu, the former owner of À la Mère de Famille, had a daughter who ultimately did not want to take over the shop. He asked them: “What should I do?”
And we told him: “We’ll do it.”
The experience of having a shop like À la Mère de Famille, with a thousand varieties of products and a specialization in chocolate, allowed us to learn a lot of different trades and to focus on what became the essence of our business: chocolate.
Déborah Pham — What was the flagship product of À la Mère de Famille back then?
Steve Dolfi — Chocolate, first of all.
Craques, Toucans and all that are specialties. But above all, there was a very traditional range of chocolates, like at all chocolate shops.
Sophie Dolfi — Mr. Neveu made his chocolates behind the shop.
Déborah Pham — Oh really?
Sophie Dolfi — Of course. There was a little laboratory behind. That was the case in many houses back then.
And he lived here, above the shop.
Steve Dolfi — When we took over the shop, our first appointments with the suppliers, we had them here, in the former Neveu family apartment.
We hadn’t done the work yet. I sometimes received people in the old bathroom!
It’s funny to see how much the place has evolved over time.
Déborah Pham — What’s funny is that Mr. Neveu’s story is one of a passing on that ultimately didn’t happen, while in your case, it’s exactly the opposite.
Steve Dolfi — How she always bounces back when it comes to passing it on!
Sophie Dolfi — Yes, for us, it’s the exact opposite.
Steve Dolfi — And speaking of passing it on, Mr. Neveu always comes to buy his chocolates at À la Mère de Famille.
Every time he comes, it’s very moving because he’s very proud of what we’ve done with the house. He’s happy that we haven’t ruined the shop he entrusted to us back then and that he can see how far it’s come.
Déborah Pham — You’ve hardly changed the decor, at least visually.
Steve Dolfi — Well, we touched everything! But that was exactly the idea: that it wouldn’t show at all.
The façade, for example, was completely restored. It was a mammoth job with the French Building Architects.
When a place is listed, even the paint has to contain a certain percentage of pigments. You have to redo the paintwork as it was done back then, use the same types of wood as at the time it was created…
We met a lot of wonderful artisans.
Including all the preparation, it took almost two years of work. And in the end, the goal was for people to enter the shop without realizing we had touched anything.
Apparently, it worked.
Déborah Pham — A success story of passing it on.
Jonathan, as the youngest, did you ever think: “Hey, maybe I could do something else”?
Jonathan Dolfi — Yes, after studying brilliantly in the United States…
Déborah Pham — What did you do?
Jonathan Dolfi — I studied finance in the United States, but I wasn’t particularly brilliant at it!
When I finished my studies, I had a talk with my father. I didn’t really know what I wanted to do, I didn’t have any particular calling.
He told me: “Listen, if you want to join us, I have things to teach you. And there’s a place for you.”
What’s important is that there are four of us siblings working together, but in quite different departments.
My father dealt a lot with finance in the company, and that wasn’t the area my siblings were most passionate about.
So he told me: “If you want to come and see what’s going on, you’re welcome.”
I jumped at the chance and I don’t regret it at all. Today, it’s going very well.
Steve Dolfi — And you already liked chocolate.
Jonathan Dolfi — I already liked chocolate.
And I’d still like to talk about my father’s trade before La Provence de Sophie. He had a candy business.
My childhood memories include extraordinary chocolate-covered caramel lollipops.
Déborah Pham — You’ve always had funny names, in the end.
Étienne Dolfi — Since we’re talking about the past, I wouldn’t want us to forget that when we took over À la Mère de Famille, we also met a master chocolatier: Jean-Marc Polisset.
He was very skilled, very modest, and taught us a great deal about chocolate.
He showed us what he did, how he did it, and how, if we wanted to develop the range, we could improve it.
I think that Steve and Sophie, who have been here the longest with me, have played a huge part in developing this production.
He had the skill and professionalism. They brought creativity and originality.
And today, that’s also what makes our business strong: this variety of products.
It wouldn’t be honest to tell our story without saying that, without Mr. Polisset, it wouldn’t have been the same.
Déborah Pham — We only have food lovers around the table, and yet no one wanted to make a career in pastry or cooking.
Étienne Dolfi — For me, it would have been my dream for my children—or now my grandchildren—to become real professionals.
Pastry chefs, master chocolatiers…
Steve Dolfi — The story isn’t over.
Jonathan has just sired our tenth grandchild!
Déborah Pham — Congratulations!
Jonathan Dolfi — Thank you.
Étienne Dolfi — He’s three months old, he has plenty of time to become a Meilleur Ouvrier de France!
That would be my dream. Today we have the means to introduce them to new things and train them with highly talented people.
Sophie Dolfi — You still need a calling.
Étienne Dolfi — Yes, of course. There is an element of calling.
Sophie Dolfi — Wait, I’m going to taste this… I’ve never tasted it.
Steve Dolfi — Sophie, are there things here you’ve never tasted?
Sophie Dolfi — Yes, I must have tasted it at the launch, but I haven’t had any since. I want to taste it again today.
Étienne Dolfi — This is precisely an example of a product that was developed by Sophie.
Sophie Dolfi — No, not this one! That’s old!
Jonathan Dolfi — I think no one really knows what’s going on right now…
Déborah Pham — But it’s very, very good. There’s Oompa who just woke up.
Oompa is Sophie’s dog.
Jonathan Dolfi — He’s my favorite niece.
Déborah Pham — Apparently it’s your wallpaper. That’s nice for the others!
We were talking about À la Mère de Famille, but there are also other houses all over France. It’s almost like Asterix and Obelix’s Tour de France: in each region, you pick up a specialty.
Steve Dolfi — That’s exactly it.
Every time, we take over historic houses that have expertise, recipes, and a whole history.
We certainly don’t come to crush them under the À la Mère de Famille identity. On the contrary, we come to learn from these houses so that it can then trickle down to all the houses we’ve taken over.
There’s the Négus de Nevers, for example, the Rocher de Biarritz…
The Toucan comes from Témoin, a house we have in Cannes. And the Rocher de Biarritz comes from the Pariès house in Biarritz.
Étienne Dolfi — The story of the Toucan is quite funny.
The man who created the product had a rather original wife, and since she liked the product, she said: “I like everything!”
And it became the Toucan…
Déborah Pham — We’re in the business of terrible puns!
Étienne Dolfi — Exactly. And today, the Toucan has become an À la Mère de Famille specialty.
Déborah Pham — Ultimately, the biggest risk for all these historic houses scattered across France is that the next generations won’t take them over.
Steve Dolfi — Absolutely.
That’s also why our podcast revolves a lot around passing it on. It’s a very important value for us.
Déborah Pham — Sophie, you were there at the very beginning of this whole enterprise with your father.
How did your love of confectionery and chocolate come about?
Sophie Dolfi — First of all, we come from a family where food is very important. We are very, very food lovers, both sweet and savory.
And chocolate is still a fascinating field.
We learned about it, because at first we didn’t know much. And we discovered a crazy number of things.
It’s fascinating because we don’t necessarily have the technique, but we have the palate. We know what we want to taste, without necessarily knowing how far we can go technically to develop the product.
Déborah Pham — So, what do you each do today?
Jane, maybe we can start with you. What is your role?
Jane Dolfi — I take care of key accounts and some of the packaging.
And then, we are all involved in strategic decisions.
Déborah Pham — Do you really make decisions together?
Jane Dolfi — Yes, collegially.
Déborah Pham — Even the slightly less strategic but more fun things, like: “Who is going to make the Advent calendar this year?”
Jonathan Dolfi — As long as we agree with Steve, it’s always very collegial.
Steve Dolfi — No! On those choices, there is perhaps a bit of arbitrariness…
Jonathan Dolfi — Every year, you still present us with three illustrators. We have the right to give our opinion.
Afterward, it is followed or not, but at least we give it!
Jane Dolfi — You also have to take feasibility into account.
Déborah Pham — And you, John, what do you do?
Jonathan Dolfi — I eat a lot of chocolate.
No, I take care of everything related to finance with our father, and I also spend a lot of time in our different pastry and chocolate laboratories.
Déborah Pham — Very nice life.
Jonathan Dolfi — A lot of trains! Always between New York and Tokyo… Well, mostly between Tours and Moulins.
Steve Dolfi — Very interregional.
Déborah Pham — And you too, Steve Dolfi, you move around a lot.
Steve Dolfi — Less than John. He is really in the laboratories every week.
Me, I am more focused on the development of the shops. When I move, it’s rather for a construction meeting.
Jonathan Dolfi — But it’s important that everyone goes to the different labs.
Because we see things and, sometimes, products are born that way.
The Dolfentin, for example, is a good story.
Originally, it’s a florentin: a disc of slivered almonds, with honey and sugar, placed on a disc of chocolate.
One day, Steve was at the factory and he saw the chocolatiers making them. He told them: “What if we completely coat it to see what it looks like?”
They put a few nougatine discs through the enrober and we came out with the Dolfentin.
Déborah Pham — It’s awesome.
Steve Dolfi — “Dolfentin” for Dolfi, in a completely megalomaniacal way.
Sophie Dolfi — It didn’t come from us!
Steve Dolfi — No, the name was proposed by Marie Rouillard.
Sophie Dolfi — Since the office was fairly much in agreement, we gave in.
Déborah Pham — Do the people around you—your families, your children—also participate in the meetings?
Sophie Dolfi — They can taste, but they don’t participate in our meetings!
On the other hand, I think the office participates a lot.
Steve Dolfi — A lot.
We are lucky to have a loyal, food-loving, and very talented team for years.
There is no decision on the creation of a product without everyone being consulted, tasting, and giving their opinion.
And in the family, there is one thing that is true: each of us has a right of veto.
Theoretically, any one of us can say, “We’re stopping this project; it’s not working at all.”
For example, the podcast…
Déborah Pham — Is this the podcast where I find out I’m fired? Thanks for the chocolates!
Steve Dolfi — But in twenty-five years, no one has ever used their veto.
Whenever someone has an idea, a taste, or a project, either they manage to convince the others, or the others manage to dissuade them.
Jonathan Dolfi — I have an idea: we should invent the right to impose something once a year.
Steve Dolfi — I’m not sure that’s a very good idea…
I think there’s something special about our family: we’re quite reserved in the way we express ourselves.
On the other hand, I think we show a lot of our love or affection through food, whether it’s savory or sweet.
That’s our way of showing someone we love them: by feeding them.
Jane Dolfi — You’re talking about our mother there.
Steve Dolfi — I’m speaking generally!
Sophie Dolfi — About our grandmother too.
Déborah Pham — Tell me about her. What was your grandmother like?
Sophie Dolfi — We had an exceptional grandmother.
She was an extraordinary cook and an extraordinary pastry chef. She even made her own almond paste.
Her home was extremely welcoming. We spent a huge amount of time there, and she took great pleasure in hosting us for lunch, dinner, or afternoon tea.
Her door was always open.
I think that on Wednesdays, she would set the table with ten places and then, depending on who arrived, everyone would sit down.
Déborah Pham — Oh, yes!
Sophie Dolfi — And she didn’t host people by making them a cheese omelet!
I remember eating some pretty exceptional things at her place.
We also cooked a lot with her.
Jonathan Dolfi — I especially remember the little white wine shortbread cookies.
We would make the dough together, then cut it out with all the cookie cutters we could find: stars, different shapes…
She always added a little white wine to flavor the dough.
Steve Dolfi — Which explains why we’re all very fond of both pastries and alcohol.
Jane Dolfi — And on Wednesday afternoons, we would leave with our shortbread cookies in a tin.
Steve Dolfi — There were also Grandma Jojo’s meringues…
Déborah Pham — And the “Russian” sounds familiar. It’s a cake, isn’t it?
Steve Dolfi — She called it the Russian, but it was never a Russian!
Jane Dolfi — What’s funny is that our mother tried to make it twenty-five times. And the poor thing never managed.
Jonathan Dolfi — You can’t really make it again.
When Grandma Jojo passed away, we got her recipe book.
Except that pastry isn’t like cooking at all. When you make a sauce, you can add spices, herbs, improvise.
In pastry, it really is down to the gram.
And she, in the recipe for the Russian, could write, “Beat the eggs until stiff,” without specifying how many eggs or for how long.
Jane Dolfi — Or “a glass of oil.”
Jonathan Dolfi — There. A glass… but which one? A small glass? A large glass?
There were a thousand approximations like that, and we never managed to recreate her recipes exactly.
Déborah Pham — But you still have some of the best pastry chefs in Paris! Can’t you put them on the dossier?
Steve Dolfi — It’s also a matter of timing.
And to get back to À la Mère de Famille, the real thing about Grandma Jojo was that when someone came to her for lunch or dinner, she would prepare something especially for them.
Sophie Dolfi — All her children had their own cake.
The eldest had their favorite cake, the second had another…
Steve Dolfi — She knew everyone’s favorite cake, the cheese board with this cheese for that person…
She was very attentive to that.
And I think that’s also what drives us today to create new products for À la Mère de Famille, saying, “This will become such-and-such person’s favorite thing.”
Déborah Pham — It’s a brand that really reflects you.
Étienne Dolfi — By the way, when we bought the company, the logo showed a mother with four children.
Steve Dolfi immediately said, “We can’t let that go. That’s our family’s whole story.”
A mother and four children.
I think he was very happy because he immediately removed me from the logo.
Steve Dolfi — Since we’re talking about trauma…
Déborah Pham — Just for this break, we’ve prepared a little game.
There are cards in the middle of the table. You can each draw one and, of course, anyone can react if they like the question.
Steve Dolfi — Am I part of the guests or not?
Déborah Pham — You can do anything.
Steve Dolfi — Wait, I suspect you’ve deliberately placed the cards. I’m going to take one from the other end.
Jane Dolfi — “What are you going to ask Santa for this year?”
Sophie — Oh! I know. I have a lot of things to ask Santa for!
Déborah Pham — These are the people on Instagram who participated and sent us their questions for the Dolfi family.
Jane, since it’s your card: you first.
Jane — I’d like shoes.
Steve Dolfi — Oh, so we’re really talking about a gift under the tree…
I was going to say a new store in Asia.
Déborah Pham — Because it’s your dream to open in Japan!
Jane Dolfi — But your answer is more like, “How do you see À la Mère de Famille in a few years?”
Steve Dolfi — No, that’s my dream gift! If I’m given a store in Tokyo or Kyoto, I’d be delighted.
You have to dream big.
And I’d like my siblings to always be just as happy.
Jane Dolfi — It’s true that next to my fluffy shoes…
Steve Dolfi — And Étienne, that he’ll still be with us at Christmas next year.
Sophie Dolfi — What’s funny is that he’s been making the same jokes about it for ten years.
Steve Dolfi — I’ve been writing the eulogy for a few years now.
Jonathan — Our father’s dream is to live to be a hundred, to keep working with us at a hundred, and to watch us, at sixty or sixty-five, keep working.
Étienne Dolfi — No! My dream is to retire.
Déborah Pham — Are you thinking about retirement?
Étienne Dolfi — I do less today, so it’s already a bit like retirement.
I don’t have many constraints. They’re very kind: they let me come, work, express myself… which is sometimes a bit hard for them.
Jonathan Dolfi — He doesn’t even have a designated office anymore!
But he’s very happy because it allows him to squat in everyone else’s offices.
Étienne Dolfi — So you’ll have to find me an office.
Déborah Pham — And what about your card?
Étienne Dolfi — “Your fondest Christmas memory?”
For me, every Christmas. I’m always happy at the thought of discovering the next one.
Jane Dolfi — It’s true that he’s been talking about death since we were little.
Déborah Pham — The podcast is taking another turn…
Jane Dolfi — No, but he always said, “Talking about death doesn’t make you die.”
Steve Dolfi — That being said, it really is linked to passing things on: telling yourself that we’re not immortal and that we need to pass on as much as possible.
Déborah Pham — There are your children too. Maybe they’ll take over one day.
Étienne Dolfi — Maybe. But even if it’s not them, it will probably be another family.
I was just telling one of our employees that the business dates back to 1761.
It has been passed down from family to family. Ultimately, the company and the brand are stronger than their owners.
I think that’s beautiful.
Déborah Pham — So you see yourselves more as stewards than as owners.
Steve Dolfi — Completely.
It’s bigger than us. It was here before us and it will be here after us.
Déborah Pham — That’s a particular way of looking at things. There are also entrepreneurs who say, “It’s my company,” and who don’t necessarily think about what comes after them.
Steve Dolfi — We were given an incredible gift by being given the opportunity to take over this chocolate shop, the oldest in Paris.
We know it was here before us, with everything that entails.
People had their Christmas chocolate boxes here before we did. So our role is also not to disappoint them.
Déborah Pham — Sophie, your question?
Sophie Dolfi — “Is there a plan to expand internationally?”
Steve Dolfi — I just answered that!
In any case, it’s a dream.
To whom it may concern: if someone wants to develop us in Asia, we’re in.
Sophie Dolfi — That would be great.
Déborah Pham — Where would you go?
Sophie Dolfi — To Asia. Japan is a real dream.
Déborah Pham — The whole family is crazy about Japan, so.
Sophie Dolfi — Yes. After that, even opening in Europe would be great.
But it takes a long time to analyze the markets.
Steve Dolfi — And it requires a talent we don’t necessarily have today.
Sophie Dolfi — Today, we don’t know how to do it. But it would be great to learn.
Déborah Pham — Has À la Mère de Famille ever had an international story? One-off collaborations? Does the brand already travel?
Jonathan Dolfi — The brand travels thanks to the Internet since we now deliver throughout Europe.
But apart from that, no.
Steve Dolfi — We have quite a few international orders. In Germany, for example, we have a bit of a reputation. We also send to Portugal, Spain…
Jane Dolfi — And we often receive emails from customers further away who tell us, “It’s such a shame you don’t deliver to the United States or Canada.”
Jonathan Dolfi — But to explain why we haven’t opened internationally yet: when you do, you have two options.
Either you find a local partner who takes on the brand and operates it locally—some kind of franchise, joint venture, or licensing agreement.
Or you do it yourself.
And if you do it yourself, you have to find premises, hire staff, set up a company, advance astronomical sums of money…
We don’t want to do that today because we still have a huge playground in France and plenty of opportunities to open here.
Déborah Pham — When foreigners come into this shop, there’s always a sense of wonder. A bit like Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.
Jonathan Dolfi — And it’s also wonderful to see the wonder in our children’s eyes.
We all have children of different ages, but when they come into the shop, they go crazy.
Sophie Dolfi — It’s the same with the customers who come into the shop on Rue du Faubourg-Montmartre.
You see their eyes, it’s incredible.
We have a magical product and a magical shop. This shop has a soul, you can feel it.
And on top of that, all you see are delicious things you want to eat. So naturally, it’s a wonderful experience.
Steve Dolfi — Sophie actually started out running the shop with the Neveu family for almost a year.
So she really knows how far they’ve come.
Sophie Dolfi — There was a lot to learn.
It was a big ship and we really didn’t want to disappoint. It was À la Mère de Famille: we couldn’t afford to mess up.
Déborah Pham — When you tell it, it really feels like you were entrusted with a gift.
Obviously, there’s an entrepreneurial vision behind it, but…
Jonathan Dolfi — It’s a gift.
The house has been at this address since 1761.
We have people in their 80s or 90s who come in and tell us: “I used to come here when I was five years old with my grandparents.”
So we have a responsibility.
As we were saying earlier, we are custodians. Today, we are the ones who have the chance to look after it and help it grow.
But in ten, twenty, thirty or forty years, it may no longer be us. It may be another family.
The shop, however, will remain there, I hope, for hundreds of years to come.
Déborah Pham — It’s beautiful.
John, do you have another question?
Jonathan — Yes: “If only one product were to remain to satisfy the whole family, which one would it be?”
I’ve thought about it and I think it would be the praline Rocher.
I’m going to get one.
It’s an almond-hazelnut praline enrobed in chocolate with almond pieces. It’s simply to die for.
Déborah Pham — Everyone agrees.
Jonathan Dolfi — Yes.
Déborah Pham — I think I’m on that team too.
Sophie Dolfi — I can tell you something: when I’m away for three or four days and don’t eat any chocolate, when I get back to the office, I’m hysterical. I need chocolate.
Steve Dolfi — My question: “What is the greatest achievement you’ve ever shared?”
Sophie — Phew… That’s a tough question.
Steve Dolfi — The podcast?
No, I’m thinking of the opening of the second À la Mère de Famille shop.
Since 1761, À la Mère de Famille had been here, at this address, and there had always only been one shop.
At one point, Sophie and I had the idea of opening a second one on the other side of Paris to see if people really knew À la Mère de Famille outside the neighborhood.
And people did know it.
That was the beginning of the whole adventure.
Steve Dolfi — I have another one: “What is your best memory of traveling to the plantations?”
Déborah Pham — Oh, that’s great!
Steve Dolfi — Sophie, tell us about your trips to the plantations.
Sophie Dolfi — Well, I’m the only one who has never been!
Déborah Pham — Jane, have you ever gone?
Jane Dolfi — Yes, I went to India with Steve Dolfi.
Steve Dolfi — We go every year, with several people from the team.
Étienne Dolfi — I’ve never been to the plantations either.
Steve Dolfi — Especially because you’re afraid of vaccines!
Déborah Pham — He never misses one! And on top of that, it makes you laugh, so naturally…
Jonathan — As long as he’s having fun, we’ll keep going. The day he stops having fun, we’ll stop.
Déborah Pham — Can you imagine if he started crying during the podcast? It would have ruined everything.
Steve Dolfi — At least it will give us a great memory.
Déborah Pham — Jane, back to India: what really struck you?
Jane Dolfi — I loved that trip for two reasons.
The first is that I discovered India. I had never been there, and it’s an extraordinary country.
And then I was with my favorite brother!
But above all, going to the plantations is really going back to the roots of our trade.
Seeing how cocoa is grown and harvested, understanding the whole process… It’s fascinating.
Déborah Pham — Everything that was theoretical until then becomes concrete.
Jane Dolfi — Exactly.
And to return the favor to my dear brother, we still have a photo that immortalizes an extraordinary moment.
We were in a plantation in India, there was a little noise under some palm leaves, Steve Dolfi thought it was a snake and clung to me.
Marie took the photo and you can see him completely terrified!
Steve Dolfi — Going back to the question, I think the first trip made the biggest impression on me.
It was in Madagascar with Jonathan and Jean-Marc. It was especially Jean-Marc’s farewell gift when he handed over the reins.
And there, we found ourselves in some pretty crazy situations: the car stuck on dirt roads, night falling…
We were genuinely terrified.
And we were walking around the plantations quite unconsciously with two-meter snakes circling us while everyone else didn’t give a damn.
I also remember a spider… But really like in the movies.
Déborah Pham — It should be noted that Steve Dolfi just made a gesture you can’t see on audio, but his spider was about the size of a football.
So your best memory is Madagascar?
Steve Dolfi — Yes, I think so.
Déborah Pham — You were also telling me about the taste of fresh cocoa beans.
Steve Dolfi — Yes, the mucilage.
That’s a major discovery from trips to the plantations. It’s incredible.
It’s the pulp that surrounds the cocoa beans, and you can almost only taste it there, at the moment you open a pod.
It’s really something you miss when you don’t go to the plantations.
Déborah Pham — I tasted some in a caipirinha, so it’s not exactly the same… It was mostly a gulp of alcohol. But I recommend it too.
Jane Dolfi — I have another question: “What family tradition do you value the most?”
I’d say Christmas, wouldn’t I?
Steve Dolfi — We definitely prefer Christmas to August 15!
But there’s still something very special about Christmas Eve.
Jonathan — Especially for our mother.
Our mother really struggles with December 24.
Déborah Pham — Why?
Jonathan Dolfi — Because for us, December 24 is the biggest day of the year.
We’re all in the shop. Either we’re selling, preparing, helping out, or delivering to shops that need stock.
By the end of the day, we’re exhausted. We close around 8 p.m. and all we want is to go home and sleep.
And our mother, who doesn’t work with us, organizes a big dinner every year.
She expects us to have a three-hour meal and for everyone to have an extraordinary evening.
And us, at 9:30 p.m., all we want is to go to bed!
Jane — I have a difficult question: “How is an idea born in the Dolfi family?”
Steve Dolfi — First of all, I don’t think it’s born solely “in the Dolfi family.”
If we’re talking about products, I think ideas are born in the office, with everyone.
Sophie Dolfi — It’s very collaborative.
Steve Dolfi — Extremely collaborative.
Étienne Dolfi — And they don’t like to copy.
Today, many companies copy each other. My children, on the other hand, love trying to come up with an original product from an original idea.
Déborah Pham — Have you ever had a creation that was a real failure?
Jonathan Dolfi — Yes.
We had created a cameo, a kind of small oval object…
Déborah Pham — A medallion.
Jonathan Dolfi — That’s it.
Steve Dolfi had developed highly demanding molds, with an extremely high level of detail.
Steve Dolfi — We had even brought in a sculptor who had sculpted the À la Mère de Famille logo in 3D.
We made several attempts, adjusted the size… It took us almost a year to come up with a tiny crest that was frankly…
Jane — Super cute.
Steve Dolfi — Super cute. The box was beautiful, everything was perfect.
But we absolutely wanted to fill it with praline, and with that thickness, the praline would turn white.
Even with an extremely constant temperature, it happened too often.
So we had to discontinue the product.
It was a shame because it was great.
Déborah Pham — And in your opinion, what are the next challenges for the family business?
Jonathan Dolfi — Opening À la Mère de Famille shops in the provinces.
Today, the house remains very Parisian: we’re in Paris and the nearby suburbs.
It would be great to introduce it to major French cities.
Déborah Pham — What are you thinking of?
Jonathan — Lyon, Bordeaux, Marseille, Montpellier…
Déborah Pham — Strasbourg!
Étienne — Yes, Strasbourg!
Déborah Pham — Are you Alsatian, Étienne?
Étienne — My grandfather was. He was a distiller in Alsace. He made brandies and liqueurs in the early 20th century.
Déborah Pham — There might be a crossover to be made!
Steve Dolfi — But we already make chocolates with alcohol!
And that’s really how the whole story began.
Étienne's father made liqueurs and sold them, notably to a candy manufacturer.
One day, that manufacturer retired. Étienne's father took over the candy factory, especially the liqueur candies, then sold his liqueur business and kept the candy business.
When he died, he left this factory to Étienne.
So, basically: liqueurs, candies, chocolate candies, chocolate... then À la Mère de Famille.
Déborah Pham — Okay! As you can see, there really is something about alcohol and chocolate.
Is there anything you would like to pass on to the listeners? Something you would like them to take away from À la Mère de Famille?
Étienne Dolfi — I can probably answer for them.
They attach enormous importance to always making good products with a reasonable price-quality ratio.
They are almost obsessed with it. They don't want to be among those who sell anything to anyone at any price.
They feel more like they are there to pass on recipes, tastes, and smells.
The obsession with money is not their driving force.
And I think that is very commendable.
I think that is also what explains why customers are loyal to them today and attached to the work they do.
And, originally, it was Sophie who brought much of that.
Steve Dolfi — Yes. It is thanks to her that we kept this philosophy.
When we had the opportunity to take over À la Mère de Famille, at the time, in Paris, there were almost exclusively chocolatiers where you would walk in and feel like you were being looked at from head to toe.
You always felt like you had a little dirt under your shoes. You weren't really comfortable.
Sophie Dolfi — At the time, it wasn't at all like today.
Today, pastry and chocolate making have become much more accessible and much more "fashionable". There are a lot of pastry chefs and chocolatiers who have opened different kinds of shops.
But at the time, there were practically only large houses.
I was young, I would arrive in jeans and slightly dirty sneakers and they would look at me almost like an alien.
When we started this business, I mainly wanted everyone to feel comfortable walking into our stores.
I wanted something familiar, pleasant. For people to have a good time.
It was exactly the opposite of what I felt when I walked into certain chocolatiers at the time.
Steve Dolfi — And I think that is something we have kept since the beginning.
Sophie Dolfi — And that we try to keep.
Étienne Dolfi — She was right.
At the time, she often talked about Hédiard and Fauchon, Place de la Madeleine. Every time she walked into those houses, she felt like a stranger in a world that wasn't hers.
She wanted people to never have that feeling when walking into ours.
Sophie Dolfi — Our philosophy is more like Ali Baba's cave: the customer comes in to have a good time.
Steve Dolfi — The first time I saw someone put it exactly like that in the press, it was Lambert Wilson.
He said in an article: "I love going to À la Mère de Famille because it is a chocolatier that doesn't think it is a jeweler."
I was really happy because I had said to myself: that is exactly what we are trying to do.
Déborah Pham — I have a question, but I don't know if I am allowed to ask it.
Well, now I have put my foot in it: do you still ever eat industrial chocolate?
Steve Dolfi — Me, yes.
Sophie Dolfi — Me, not really.
Déborah Pham — What do you eat, Steve?
Steve Dolfi — Actually, I can eat an industrial bar.
Sophie Dolfi — Me too, if there really is nothing else.
I wouldn't eat industrial praline or ganache. But a piece of a bar, yes.
I must be at the end of my rope, but I can do it.
Déborah Pham — I still imagine your cupboards are full of chocolate at home?
Sophie Dolfi — Not at all.
There is nothing at my place.
Déborah Pham — Oh yeah?
Sophie Dolfi — But you can't eat chocolate all day at work and come home in the evening to eat more.
Jonathan Dolfi — And then the tragedy is if you have papillotes at home in the evening.
Then you are dead.
For me, the two most dangerous products are papillotes at Christmas and praline eggs at Easter.
If you have a bag at home and you start eating one in the evening, you eat fifteen. You are done for.
Déborah Pham — So you all have more or less the same policy at home.
But then, what does your office look like? Because I have the impression that it looks a bit like this table.
Jonathan Dolfi — Completely.
Jane Dolfi — That is where we test everything.
Jonathan Dolfi — In the office entrance, there is a place I call "the magic table".
As soon as there are samples, new products, or even chocolates that come back from the stores because they are not up to standard or not pretty enough, we put them on this table.
And everyone grabs some as they pass by: a little in the morning, a little in the afternoon, at lunch...
It is great because that is also where you really see if a product works.
You can have a sample that stays on the table for several days.
For example, candied fruits can stay a little longer because people are less addicted to candied fruits than to chocolate.
On the other hand, you put out marshmallows or Craques at 10 in the morning: by 4, there is nothing left.
And you even see the preferences.
If you put out the dark version and the milk version and by 4 all the dark is gone but the milk remains, you say to yourself: "Okay, obviously, people prefer dark."
Steve Dolfi — It seems like we are working in an office of two hundred people when he tells it like that.
There are fifteen or sixteen of us!
Déborah Pham — But you are talking about candied fruits... These slightly more old-school products, who do you still make them for?
Jonathan Dolfi — Candied fruits are one thing. But orangettes, for example, remain a truly iconic candy of French chocolate making.
Today, everyone loves orangettes. It really goes from 7 to 77, without exaggerating.
Déborah Pham — With the perspective you have on À la Mère de Famille, you must necessarily see trends evolve, people's pleasures...
Jonathan Dolfi — I don't know if they are really changes in trends.
It is mostly a question of individual taste.
You take ten people in a room, you have ten different tastes.
And this table represents quite well what we do: there are a lot of different things.
Even the six of us around this table, we have very different tastes.
It is funny: no one went for the Toucans. On the other hand, the Rochers are gone, the mendiants are gone, the molten caramel bite too...
Déborah Pham — To conclude, as this episode will come out during the holidays: what do we suggest putting on people's Christmas tables?
Steve Dolfi — Papillotes.
Jane — Papillotes, for sure.
Déborah Pham — With their jokes?
Steve Dolfi — Of course.
Jonathan — We could put "truth or dare" in them next year.
Déborah Pham — That could be fun!
Sophie — And truffles.
Steve Dolfi — Truffles, obviously.
Déborah Pham — So: papillotes and truffles for Christmas.
I think that is approved by the whole family.
Thank you all for playing along and coming around this table.
Steve Dolfi — Thank you, Déborah.
Déborah Pham — And Merry Christmas!
The Dolfi family — Merry Christmas!
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Every month, Déborah Pham, a journalist, and Steve Dolfi, co-owner of the oldest chocolate shop in Paris, receive inspiring guests for snack time, in the secret dining room of the historic shop. Personalities we want to listen to and have talk about transmission. Each guest arrives with a confidant, someone who matters, from whom they received an influence or to whom they passed on a certain vision of the world. For one hour, we talk about bonds, memories, what is passed on without even thinking about it. An unfiltered conversation with a full mouth, since here you are allowed to.
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